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In this poll you vote for the potential VP that will do the least good or the most harm for Howard Dean--assuming Dean gets the nomination.

This is the ninth round. It is also the last day to make nominations. This thread will be the only poll thread until the end of the day to keep nominations clear.

See below for eliminations in previous round.

A candidate can join the field if s/he receives a nomination and a second.

In the queue to join the poll are former Sen. Bill Bradley (NJ), Sen. Dick Durbin (IL) and Rep. Steny Hoyer (MD).

First round Bill Clinton eliminated-23%

Second round Marcy Kaptur (Ohio)

Third round Jesse Jackson, Jr. (Illinois)

Fourth round Evan Bayh (Indiana)

Fifth round Patty Murray (Washington)

Sixth round Tim Wirth (formerly of Colorado)

Seventh round Gary Hart (Colorado)

Eighth round John Lewis (Georgia) and Anthony Zinni (US Marine Corps (ret))

linked text

Originally posted to Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 01:54 PM PST.

Poll

Who would be the weakest person for Dean to run with?

1%3 votes
4%7 votes
3%6 votes
1%2 votes
6%11 votes
3%5 votes
5%8 votes
3%5 votes
11%18 votes
11%18 votes
15%25 votes
32%51 votes

| 159 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Last Day for nominations (none)
    It's over at midnight tonight.

    There was a request to close nominations.  I agreed.  This seemed like a fair way.

    Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

    by Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 01:59:22 PM PST

  •  Re: Survivor poll, Dean VP. Last day for nominat (none)
    Little doubt the nominee will be Dean. Dean will need a military man on the ticket for the win.

    This time around, the revolution will not be televised.

    by Demise on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:00:10 PM PST

  •  Anthony Zinni & John Lewis (none)
    If you voted that one of these two was the weakest, please explain.

    Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

    by Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:00:15 PM PST

    •  Re: Anthony Zinni & John Lewis (none)
      One's a Republican with no elective office experience who should never have been on the list in the first place but is the beneficiary of a segment of opinion which immediately nominates for Vice-President anyone prominent who opposed the Iraq war; and the other's a sixty-three-year-old Representative from a state Dean can't win who's never won, or even run, statewide.
      •  Re: Anthony Zinni & John Lewis (none)
        One's a Republican with no elective office experience who should never have been on the list in the first place but is the beneficiary of a segment of opinion which immediately nominates for Vice-President anyone prominent who opposed the Iraq war;

        Amen to that.  

        Earth to Democrats:  there is no indication that the general public sees military experience as equivalent to foreign policy strength.  In fact, there's little indication that the public really sees foreign policy as a huge issue to begin with.

        Stop playing the Republicans' games!

        We are not scaremongering, This is really happening. -Radiohead

        by strannix on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:12:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Re: Anthony Zinni & John Lewis (none)
          Zinni was a bonafide military leader and diplomat before and after he left the service.

          The fact that the Bush admin tapped him to be a special envoy puts them in an awkward spot if they try to dirt him.

          I think Zinni would be stronger than Cleland, Warner and Landrieu and perhaps Nelson and Rudman.

          Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

          by Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:17:45 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Re: Anthony Zinni & John Lewis (none)
            Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Zinni. I didn't even vote for him.  I just don't think that he's particularly well qualified to be the VP pick.

            At the very least, I think the VP has to have at least some campaign experience. And at least some bona fides in the party. That's all.

            We are not scaremongering, This is really happening. -Radiohead

            by strannix on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:26:46 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Re: Anthony Zinni & John Lewis (none)
        He's also exactly as qualified as Wes Clark.  Former CinC.  More speaking in not-for-profit situations about the war (as opposed to cable news channel deals).

        Oh wait.  There is a difference.  Zinni's abundance of experience comes in the Middle East.  Including some serious negotiation in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.  You're right.  That's not worthwhile.

    •  Re: Anthony Zinni & John Lewis (none)
      Lewis has little name recognition and adds little to any critical swing vote areas in the general election.  The SW strategy is what the Dems need to win.
    •  Re: Anthony Zinni & John Lewis (none)
      I voted for Lewis b/c he is not a senator or governor.

      I suppose his supporters think he would energize Black voters across the South.  Unfortunately, I think Dems are somewhat guilty of not updating their concept of Black leadership since the Civil Rights movement.  I do not think Lewis would excite people younger than Baby Boomers.

      Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

      by Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:10:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Re: Anthony Zinni & John Lewis (none)
        I know that I'm a little bit weird and wacky, but I'm 19 and Lewis VP would really get me fired up in a way that Dean really hasn't.  It may be because I have only vague idea of who he is (now, I know who he was, if you see what I mean), but I would be excited by the idealism that he represents.  
        His age is an issue though.  We wouldn't be able to make Cheney health jokes any more.  
    •  Re: Anthony Zinni & John Lewis (none)
      John Lewis is an honorable man.  But he's way past his time which was the 60's civil rights struggle.  

      He has little national name recognition (outside the  AA community) and has never won a statewide office.  His congressional seat is dead safe democrat so no way to tell if he has any crossover appeal.

      And even though I'm a Georgian too, I have a hard time understanding a word of what he's saying with that think accent.  Just don't think he'd play that well or bring anything to the ticket.

  •  nominations needing a second (none)
    Does anyone wish to second the nominations of

    Sen. John Breaux of Louisiana
    Eric Shinseki, Gen, USA (ret), former Army Chief of Staff
    Bob Kerrey, former Sen and Gov of Nebraska
    Sen. Charles Schumer of New York

    Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

    by Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:03:14 PM PST

    •  Re: nominations needing a second (none)
      I second Schumer. We need something besides southerners on this list.

      The Empirical Left is coming!

      by Chris Bowers on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:40:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Re: nominations needing a second (none)
      Can I put in a block on John Breaux? His ties to Big Oil and the DLC, plus his lack of positive impact outside of his home state outweighs the outside possibility that he could deliver Lousiana.

      Also, is it fair to renominate Shinseki?  I thought I succeeded in squelching that nomination a few rounds ago.  To summarize:  Shina . . . who?  If Dean reaches for the stars, it's gotta be Clark, based on name-recognition alone.

    •  Re: nominations needing a second (none)
      No on both Shinseki and Kerrey.

      No to Shinseki because if we're not interested in Zinni, I don't know why we'd be interested in Shinseki.  Zinni offers more.

      No to Kerrey because I smell a rat in his getting named to the 9/11 commission (to replace Cleland--see my anti-Cleland lobbying below).

      •  Kerrey, Cleland, 9/11 Commission (none)
        You think Kerrey is going to go soft on Bush?

        I think the evidence suggests that Kerrey is both a better critical thinker than Cleland and more willing to stick to his principles.

        Cleland might be mad at Bush, but I thought Cleland's voting record reflected somebody trying to find the safe center, not someone that was willing to cast a tough vote and explain it.

        Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

        by Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:56:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Re: Kerrey, Cleland, 9/11 Commission (none)
          I really don't know--and to a large degree trust your instincts on this.

          But the way the 9/11 announcement took place--with almost no media, with no apparent acknowledgement on the New School web (and after all the criticism he has taken there in the recent past), with the Cleland appointment, the timing (just before the panel begins to get the info BushCo has embargoed so far).  It all stinks to me.

    •  Re: nominations needing a second (none)
      I second John Breaux.  
      •  Re: nominations needing a second (none)
        Breaux will join the queue poll.

        Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

        by Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 05:00:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Re: nominations needing a second (none)
          Breaux doesn't desearve to be on any list.  He sold out the Dems and seniors on medicare, then wouldn't defend his seat in LA for the party and sold out the party in Congress.  Why the fuck would we reward him with the VP?  Let him go have his "second career"  probably in big oil as a lobbyist, or board member, making millions.

          Let's never forget we are American citizens and patriots first, and partisan Democrats and presidential candidate supporters second.

          by rusrivman on Thu Dec 18, 2003 at 02:55:15 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Re: nominations needing a second (none)
      I'll second Shinseki.  Not for any reason other than that fact that my father worked with him in Germany.  My dad is hard core Republican and hates Shinseki, so Eric must have done something right.
  •  Cleland and Rudman (none)
    What are the pros and cons of the new guys on the ballot?

    Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

    by Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:04:01 PM PST

    •  Re: Cleland and Rudman (none)
      While Rudman's obvious plus--his link to budget discipline--is tempting, the fact that he's a Republican from that other tiny state on Maine's southern border should rule him out.
  •  recovery round (none)
    In keeping with the network manipulated reality TV show theme I am considering a recovery round when the field narrows to ten.

    One or two candidates will be brought out of the "voted out" pool, if a majority of dKos voters says the candidates on on their top ten list.

    Comments?

    Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

    by Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:07:13 PM PST

  •  Nomination: Vermin Supreme (none)
    Second, anyone? :-)
  •  VP Nominations (none)
    Former Nebraska Senator Bob Kerry (now on 9/11 Commission).

    Former Texas Governor Ann Richards.

    California Senator Dianne Feinstein.

    Louisiana Senator John Breaux.

    Arkansas Senator Blanche Lincoln.

    Former Atlanta Mayor and U.N. Ambassador Andrew Young.

    Pilots for Dean: Climb and maintain victory!

    by sipples on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:31:07 PM PST

  •  Phew (none)
    I rally like this series of polls, and I appreciate Carl's efforts greatly. However, the remaining choices leave me quite frustrated.

    I mean, thank God we have removed nearly all of the progressives and non-southerners. Soon, with Rudman losing today, only Feingold and Richardson will be left of the non-Southerners. Feingold is the only person remaining who isn't centrist or conservative. I'm surprised Blanche Lincoln and Mark Prior haven't made the poll, since every single other state-wide elected southern has. Hell, southerners who recently lost state-wide elections in the south and then trashed Dean have made it onto the list.

    How can so many people here still foolishly believe that a southerner as VP will somehow, on its own, tilt one or two southern states over the the Dems? In both 1992 and 1996, despite winning the poular vote by large margins, the Clinton/Gore ticket lost the majority of southern states. Further, they did worse in the south in 1996 than 1992, despite a larger national victory. In 2000, Gore was blown out in most southern states, despite being from the south and winning the popular vote. He even lost his home state by a decent margin. Yet, despite this, we have two former senators from Georgia on the list, one soon to be former senator from NC, a senator from LA and one from WV. I fail to see how any of these people would add anything to Dean's chances. However, I can see how they would all cause damage.

    Yeah, I am frustrated with the short-sightedness of the VP discussion around here. Dena didn't rise to the top of the invisible primary by following outdated tactics. Still when it comes to a series of polls about Dean's best bet, outdated VP choies based on outdated VP philosohpies is all most people around here feel up to offering. If this resembles Dean's short list in any way, it will be a very sad day for Dean's campaign.

    I sincerely hope that Feingold, Richardson and Clark are the last three standing. We need to consider a diverse blend of potential VP's. Unfortunately, we seem to be looking for potential VP's for fit one single outdated model rahter than trying to appreciate the broader resources of our party.

    The Empirical Left is coming!

    by Chris Bowers on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:32:14 PM PST

    •  Re: Phew (none)
      Rudman and Feingold have the most votes by far.

      Please stop the madness people. The obession with the south is perplexing.

      The Empirical Left is coming!

      by Chris Bowers on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:37:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Re: Phew (none)
        Rudman wouldn't have so many votes if he were only, y'know, a Democrat.
        •  Re: Phew (none)
          Actually, if Rudman were a Dem, nobody would ever consider pairing a Granite Stater with a candidate from the Green Mountain State.

          Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

          by Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:41:28 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Re: Phew (none)
            Well, yes. But he might have lasted a couple of rounds before being booted off.

            One of the reasons I advocated closing nominations is that I'm getting tired of having rounds that are essentially a wash, clearing off ridiculous nominees. I'd quite like to get down to the serious field, which to my mind consists of about seven people, and start a real debate about who's better.

        •  Re: Phew (none)
          Zinni hung around for eight rounds without being one. It hasn't stopped people before.

          Sorry, I'm just frustrated. How narrow minded can we be? How conservative can our thinking be? How much can be overlook trendlines in every southern state (except VA and FL, which are moving toward Democrats). Its just bizarre.

          Surely we can do better than a wave of southern moderates who have combat experience.

          The Empirical Left is coming!

          by Chris Bowers on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 02:46:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Re: Phew (none)
            Well, I spent six rounds trying to get rid of Tim Wirth, but in the last two I voted for Zinni. We only get one vote, and there are so many annoying candidates, we have to get rid of the monumentally silly ones first. Patience.
            •  Re: Phew (none)
              Well put. I agree completely.

              I spent a while trying to ditch Nunn.

              I do need more patience. I do not expect someone like like Murray or JJ2 to be the nominee, but I wish they were given more serious consideration than the undifferentiated mass of southern conservatives who spend more time on the list.

              The Empirical Left is coming!

              by Chris Bowers on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 03:11:35 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Re: Phew (none)
            I'm still intrigued by Chris' argument for Russ Feingold.  Part of what drew me to Dean in the first place was the sentiment that if you're that certain you can beat Bush, why settle for someone (ie Gore, '00 model) when you can have someone you want?

            So, in that vein, although I've been hesitant to add to the nominee glut again, I'd like to drop Tom Harkin (D-IA) on the pile.

            Pros: Helps if you think IA will be a battleground state in '04 (I don't agree, but there you go).  Not up for re-election until '08.  30 years of Congressional experience.  Ragular-guy, no-bullshit image and great liberal attack dog ("George Herbert Hoover Bush!").  Veteran (Navy pilot who knows a little something about aircraft carriers).  Spearheaded the ADA (not that Dean needs any more health care cred).

            Wild card: Voted for the original Iraq resolution, but admitted early on to being duped by propaganda/faulty intel and came around.  Hasn't endorsed anyone yet, and who knows if he ever will.

            Cons: Wavered on the energy bill (Big Ethanol?).  Not a foreign-policy rock star.  How will his style go over in the South and West?  Too old? (he's 64).
            Would have to fill his Senate seat (pity Vilsack couldn't appoint himself).

            "Nothing is inevitable provided we are prepared to pay attention."

            by section29 on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 03:13:07 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Re: Phew (none)
      Well, for my part there's only two Southerners I support, and in both cases the mere fact that they're Southerners has very little to do with the reason I like them.

      These first few rounds have mostly involved clearing out the more ridiculous choices, one at a time. A whole bunch of these Southerners have no business here, either, and they're going to get those. Sam Nunn came close to being voted off a round or two ago.

      There is also an electoral calculus. There's minimal point in choosing a VP from a safe Democratic state; we want one from a big swing state, or a black or Hispanic nominee, to broaden the Democratic coalition.

      If we're looking to Hispanics, we're looking to Richardson. Nobody disputes that. There's nobody with Richardson's stature in the black community -- sorry, but it's true. Richardson's had a stellar career: House, Cabinet, and now Governor. He'd be pretty impressive even if he was a white guy.

      On the other hand, there three basic classes of potential black VP: JJJ, Andrew Young, and old guys who've never served anywhere but the House. The old guys get crossed off immediately. Andrew Young is also too old. And you know I don't think JJJ is the magic touch as you do. So suddenly we're out of candidates. This is why I repeatedly say: "Black Governors and Senators first. Then a black VP."

      So we're down to the electoral argument. "Big swing state" is a short list: Arizona, Colorado, Virginia, Missouri, and Florida. There is nobody in Arizona, Colorado, or Missouri with sufficient stature. In 2008 or 2012, I expect Janet Napolitano and Ken Salazar to make a lot of shortlists, but they're not there yet. And I've said before that if Mel Carnahan had lived, he'd be on a bunch of shortlists, too. So immediately, we're down to the two states in the South, both of which have candidates who would merit consideration whichever region they were from.

      I'm not starting in the South. It's just that I wind up there by process of elimination.

      But don't worry, I'm going to be voting to get rid of Cleland, Nunn, Landrieu and Pryor once the dead wood's off the ballot.

      •  why Nunn? (none)
        I think Cleland was a decent Senator, but wasn't eager to promote him.

        Landrieu, Lincoln and Prior seem to have too little foreign policy exp. and general stature.  Are they ready to step in to the big job?

        But why not Nunn?

        Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

        by Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 03:04:53 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Re: Phew (none)
        Good comments.  I do also feel we don't have a real qualified black candidate yet.  We need a black governor or Senator.  If Carol Moseley Braun hadn't gotten brought down by scandal and won re-election, she would definitely be on Dean's potential list.  Heck....she might be on his list now considering how well she does in debates and such.

        Richardson would be a good choice for a Latino VP.  

        I agree that many times this discussion will lead to choosing a Southerner. That's why I have mentioned Graham, Breaux, etc.  As far as the Midwest.....Maybe Dick Gephardt for VP???

        •  Douglas Wilder Suggested, But Few Choices (none)
          Former Governor of Virginia. He's still in his early 70s, I believe, so a possibility. Anyone want to second him?

          Arkansan Rodney Slater is perhaps an up-and-coming star, but he ought to be running for governor or senator somewhere, not VP. He was Clinton's Secretary of Transporation until Mineta.

          Charles Turnbill is the currently serving African-American governor of the U.S. Virgin Islands. Don't think he'll work, although the press corps would love that time away from Washington in the winter.

          Clinton's other African-American Cabinet appointments are Mike Espy, Alexis Herman, and Hazel O'Leary. None are VP material.

          Friend-of-Bill Vernon Jordan is available and would help Dean considerably with the Washington power broker scene. He'll be 69 next November. OK, maybe not. :-)

          Pilots for Dean: Climb and maintain victory!

          by sipples on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 06:01:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Re: Phew (none)
      I'm surprised Blanche Lincoln and Mark Prior haven't made the poll

      Wait a minute...Mark Prior has a great career ahead of him as a pitcher for the Cubs, I don't know why you would think that he would be interested in a VP nod.

      since every single other state-wide elected southern has

      Oh, wait that Mark Prior...never mind...please move on...

  •  Cleland doesn't offer that much . . . anymore (none)
    I fear I'm getting repetitive.  But I feel pretty strongly about this.

    I was one of the early advocates for Cleland on this list.  But now I think he would not offer much as a VP candidate.

    First, he has stepped down from the 9/11 commission, and taken a (Bush-granted) position on the Import-Export Bank instead.  Not only does this rob us of a real fighter on the commission, but it suggests Cleland's interests can easily be swayed.  To make it worse, from all I know of the Import-Export bank (which admittedly is not all that much), it is little more than a lush position from which you grant money to foreign lobbyists and their clients.  More importantly, a Cleland VP debating Cheney over Foreign relations has value when he still has a top secret clearance and is seeing the FCC records and information on Bush's daily briefing.  But this information all broke after Cleland left the committee, so he loses a lot of value there.

    Add to this his attack on Dean (assuming he gets the nomination). I would otherwise ignore this, but I think given the above factor, it becomes an unnecessary risk.

    Off of the 9/11 commission and on Bush's gravy train, Cleland becomes little more than an honored veteran who has already lost to Rove once.

  •  what would help Dean form a ticket? (none)
    What should Dean be looking for in a VP?

    Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

    by Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 03:02:14 PM PST

    •  Re: what would help Dean form a ticket? (none)
      He should look for:
      1. Regional balance-if he is going to seriously go after the South then he needs a credible Southern DEM.  The other alternative is to go for a Midwesterner or someone from the Southwest.
      2. Insider Status-Dean has said he will pick an Washington insider as VP.  Someone who knows Washington.  He knows he will need help being a successful President.  He doesn''t want to be Carter.
      3. National Security credentials-a must. He needs someone to help bolster his national security/foreign policy credentials.
      There are other criteria like appealing to the base groups....Women, Blacks, Latinos, etc.  Also he might consider the person's stand on key issues and whether they match his.

      The most likely candidate he is considering include:  1)Bob Graham-meets all three criteria, 2)Wesley Clark-meets two of the criteria, 3)Bill Richardson-meet all three criteria.

      But barring these guys....I think he should look at Sen. John Breaux or former Sen. Sam Nunn.  They are more conserative than him but that might help him appeal to moderate swing voters....of course it could turn off leftist voters.  

      •  Re: what would help Dean form a ticket? (none)
        What about Rockefeller?

        He would seem to have all three things.

        Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

        by Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 03:53:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Re: what would help Dean form a ticket? (none)
          Oh, I didn't put him on because of the height factor.  He towers over Dean making an unflattering contrast.

          But he would be an interesting pick.  He might bring back WV, and help in states like OH and PA that border WV and have similiar thinking.

          •  Re: what would help Dean form a ticket? (none)
            Height wouldn't be such an issue; Johnson was taller than Kennedy and Bush was taller than Reagan. The problem with a Dean-Rockefeller ticket is it would be too much blueblood. Venturing out of Dean veep speculation a bit, Rockefeller would be an interesting choice for a candidate with a more blue-collar background and economic message, like Edwards or Gephardt.
            •  Re: what would help Dean form a ticket? (none)
              Yes, but none of them was a whole foot taller. Dean's a scrappy 5'8". Rockefeller is 6'8" -- he's yooj.

              I think you can get away with four inches' height difference, no more.

              •  Re: what would help Dean form a ticket? (none)
                Whoa, I didn't know Rockefeller is 6'8". I thought he was 6'4" or so.
                •  Rockefeller, height and Dean (none)
                  I don't know exactly how tall Rock is, but in the pictures I've seen of him and other Senators, he looks really, really tall.  And most of the other Senators are taller than average.  And Dean is average height.

                  I actually think this might sorta both make Dean more human.  It will draw attention to his height and sorta disspell the idea that he's had a life of privilege.  Thanks to childhood, everyone can relate to being too short.  But it also would make Dean seem more masculine, that he was OK with being ID'd as the short candidate that was self-confident enough to take a really tall running mate.

                  Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

                  by Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 10:37:54 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Re: what would help Dean form a ticket? (none)
        I would knock Graham off because he isn't what he used to be in Florida. After his disasrotous presidential campaign hes damaged goods. His foreign policy credentials are real but somewhat disturbing.  He was on the Senate intelligence comittee but he seems somewhat wild-eyed in his talk of terrorsim. I don't think Dean needs another agressive violent attack on bush from his VP.

        Richardson has said he won't run. I also think that it would be a mistake to nominate him from a strategic point of view. He would be a great presidential canidate in '08 or '12 and a governorship would be a better jumping off point than the VP slot. Also, does he really have much standing or even name recoginition among hispanics across the US? His surname doesn't help.

        I would also like to point out that Landrieu meets   all three criteria (arguably). Shes from LA and given a recent trend of Dem victories there might  swing it at least into the contested column. She is on the armed services comitee and is called "military mary" or something like that. Lastly she is a senator from a family of polticians which qualifies as an insider in my book. Other benefits: not up for reelection untill '08, would look good as the warm and fuzzy side of Dean's campaign, female and so would help with women.

        Put you money where your mouth is.

        by samiam on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 08:26:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Re: what would help Dean form a ticket? (none)
          if you knock Graham off you might as well knock Nelson off... you cant pick Nelson without slighting Graham and Bill Nelson really hasnt been Senator long enough to warrant being on this list.  Hes been there less than Edwards.
          •  Re: what would help Dean form a ticket? (none)
            I disagree.  Graham retired from politics.  He gave up his campaign for president and his Senate seat.(One more we need to fight like hell to hold now, thanks Bob!)  Nelson is still in the game.  Picking Nelson is no insult to Graham, and I'm sure Graham would be leading the parade praising Nelson, how could he not?

            Let's never forget we are American citizens and patriots first, and partisan Democrats and presidential candidate supporters second.

            by rusrivman on Thu Dec 18, 2003 at 03:47:11 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  More Nominations (none)
    I'm sensitive to the criticisms that there are too many southerners under consideration. So here are some more possibilities, with one more southerner -- and a darn good one -- tossed in for good measure.

    Former Senator, Former Connecticut Governor, and Former Republican Lowell Weicker.

    Former Colorado Governor Roy Romer.

    Former Colorado Senator Gary Hart.

    Former Speaker of the House Tom Foley.

    Nevada Senator Harry Reid.

    Iowa Senator Tom Harkin.

    Former Missouri Senator Jean Carnahan.

    Former Virginia Governor Douglas Wilder.

    Pilots for Dean: Climb and maintain victory!

    by sipples on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 03:05:05 PM PST

  •  Re: Survivor poll, Dean VP. Last day for nominat (none)
    We seem to be picking up an enormous pile of nominations for the queue. We'll never get anywhere if we don't narrow them down a bit.

    So here's what I propose -- when nominations close, can we have a multiple-elimination poll on the queue of those waiting to join the ballot? Any nominee getting an arbitrary percentage of elimination votes -- say 15% -- would be culled from the queue without ever going onto the main ballot. This would judge which nominees are even remotely viable.

    Rudman, for example, is clearly toast this round. He was able to join because you could get two people out of the 120-odd which seems to be the electorate for these polls to support him, but the other 118 don't, it seems, think much of him; and having him has made this round a bit pointless.

    •  Culling the queue. (none)
      I'm almost inclined to eliminate any candidate that doesn't finish in the top third of the queue cull.

      The candidates dropped can turn-up again in the recovery round if they've got strong support.

      We're not trying to fluff up a whole bunch of egos here.  We're trying to tap into the wisdom of the group to vet the field.  And a better use of time is seriously discussing the real option, not endlessly adding candidates to have them voted off in the same round.  As of this post, not only is Rudman running away with it, but Cleland, the other candidate added in this round, is #2.

      Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

      by Carl Nyberg on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 04:53:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Re: Culling the queue. (none)
        Drop Cleland.  If he can't even beat a nothing like Saxby Chambliss he's a waste of time.  

        Also his recent sellout bailing off the 911 commission for a cushy appointment and below the belt shot at Dean re Vietnam should disqualify him.

        He'd be a small businessman somewhere if he hadn't been injured in Vietnam.  The wish to honor someone who sacrificed so much carried him far above his level of ability.  I used to think he was a good guy in over his head.  The cheap shot about Dean off skiing make's me wonder (if I had a gun to my head I'd probably vote Clark -- still undecided for now)

      •  Re: Culling the queue. (none)
        True, we should narrow the field. Maybe require two seconds (or would that be a second and a third) or have another pole to determine who to add.

        However, aren't we beeing a little hasty? The first primary isn't for a month. Dean won't choose a VP for at least six months. At the rate were going we could eliminate hundreds.

        Put you money where your mouth is.

        by samiam on Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 08:32:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  nomination (none)
    Gov Ed Rendell of Pennsylvania
  •  Something to keep in mind (none)
    I think the tidal wave of nominations might be over, but I'll throw this out anyway.

    Can we please remember that the best office for many talented, qualified people is NOT the Vice-Presidency?

    All of the following people are outstanding public citizens and smart people, and all of the following people would be utterly wasted minding the famous bucket of warm spit:

    Colin Powell
    Warren Rudman
    Gary Hart
    Bob Graham
    Anthony Zinni
    Wesley Clark
    Ann Richards
    Russ Feingold
    Max Cleland
    Bob Kerrey
    Andrew Young
    Sam Nunn

    When you are picking the Vice-President, you are picking the President's deputy, not his mentor.

    And please don't throw Cheney at me. I've said before and will say again that Cheney was (1) a dumb-ass choice and (2) an electoral drag on Bush.

  •  Re: Survivor poll, Dean VP. Last day for nominat (none)
    Hope I'm in on time...
    Hear this one out: Tom Daschle.
    1. From the heart of the red states, South Dakota.
    2. Was a Captain in Air Force Intelligence during Vietnam.
    3. Can you say legislative/Washington experience?
    I admit that the ticket would have some cognitive dissonance vis a vis the "Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party," inside-outside thing, but let's keep in mind that Daschle was far more reluctant about the war than Gephardt.

    Also, he's even shorter than Dean.

    "Politics is about doing well for people." Senator Paul Wellstone

    by leftist on Thu Dec 18, 2003 at 12:40:58 AM PST

    •  a second? (none)
      Does anybody want to second Daschle?

      I like the guy, but losing the Senate in 2002 was a big hit against his upward mobility.

      And is he eligible to run for VP and Senate in 2004?  I do know the SD legislature made it so he can't run for Senate and POTUS at the same time.  I expect they nixed running for VP too.

      And would he take it?  Would you rather be the head Dem in the Senate or VP?  Why would Daschle want to be the VP?

      Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

      by Carl Nyberg on Thu Dec 18, 2003 at 01:23:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  LORETTA SANCHEZ FOR VEEP (none)
    I'm all about Loretta Sanchez.  She is a moderate Dem in the republican stronghold of Orange County.  She is the person who saved us from Bob Dornan, she is a strong leader of the Latino community, she is smart, articulate, started as a business woman, is a great member of congress -- and she even has some foreign policy and homeland security expertise (select committee for homeland security, House Armed Services Committee)

    Dean / Sanchez 2004!!

  •  Re: Survivor poll, Dean VP. (none)
    Why do you keep putting Repugs on the list of Dem VP????  I find it insulting.  Rudman was a repug Senator from NH who who his seat in another stolen election.  Only that time, the Repugs smugly didn't show up election day and the dem won a squeaker, then it was challenged and neither candidate was seated.  The election was reheld (believe it or not) and Rudman won the "do-over"  while he wasn't the worst Repug in Congress, that hardly qualifies for our list!
    It's such a defeatist attitude to imply we don't have enough high quality candidates without drafting theirs.

    Let's never forget we are American citizens and patriots first, and partisan Democrats and presidential candidate supporters second.

    by rusrivman on Thu Dec 18, 2003 at 03:01:05 AM PST

  •  Re: Survivor poll, Dean VP. (none)
    Why do you keep putting Repugs on the list of Dem VP????  I find it insulting.  Rudman was a repug Senator from NH who who his seat in another stolen election.  Only that time, the Repugs smugly didn't show up election day and the dem won a squeaker, then it was challenged and neither candidate was seated.  The election was reheld (believe it or not) and Rudman won the "do-over"  while he wasn't the worst Repug in Congress, that hardly qualifies for our list!
    It's such a defeatist attitude to imply we don't have enough high quality candidates without drafting theirs.

    Let's never forget we are American citizens and patriots first, and partisan Democrats and presidential candidate supporters second.

    by rusrivman on Thu Dec 18, 2003 at 03:01:29 AM PST

  •  next thread started (none)
    The next thread to winnow the field has been started.

    However the current poll is an Instant Runoff Voting poll at http://demochoice.org/dcballot.php?poll=QueueCull

    Please only vote once.

    Survivor poll of potential Dean VP candidates. Round nine; last day for nominations.

    by Carl Nyberg on Thu Dec 18, 2003 at 01:42:25 PM PST

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